In recent weeks I have found myself involved with conversations as diverse as homosexuality, to the Mosque that is to be built in New York. In all of this I have tried to view the subject from a Biblical perspective. I have found it odd that many in the conversation have no wish to know what the Bible says other than “Love your enemies” and “Judge not”. If I were corresponding with complete unbelievers this would be no surprise but my contact has been with people who claim an allegiance to God.
You can imagine the charges that have been levied against me. I have been accused of hating homosexuals. All I did was point out scriptures that condemn the practice. I hate them no more than God does, who by the way loves them enough to forgive them if they repent and turn to Him. I have been accused of judging the world by my standards. Fact is, I can set no standards; only God can do that.
Every time we stand for God someone is waiting to beat us down, ready to distort anything we say in order to make us look bad and narrow-minded. How do we handle this? We really only have two choices: 1. Sit and do nothing, which is what Satan wants, or 2. Stand for God no matter the cost to us. Isn’t that what Peter and John did? (Acts 4:19-20)
In Psalm 56:11 we find this principle articulated. It has strengthened God’s people in their time of distress over the centuries. It’s now time for it to strengthen His church today. The only thing man can do to us is send us home early.
Father, give me the strength today to hide myself in You.
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If we prayerfully consider the scriptures, and always act in a loving manner towards our brothers and sisters in Christ: we will have no choice but to be accepting and understanding of another persons verbalization of faith. Who are we to say that one person is wrong or right. The scriptures are what they are. You are certainly right that scriptures do condemn some behaviors (a multitude, actually)…so how could you be wrong to mention them?! But, God also says that above all else “Love, thy neighbor as thyself” So, as we list scriptures, we must remember to allow our conversations to be colored with love, understanding, and prayerful consideration. After all, our goal is to gently lead ALL SHEEP to christ…not condemn or guilt people into a change of heart. GOD changes hearts.
I have reread my post and your response several times. I’m not sure I understand your point. I have stated clearly the need for love. We must understand that love sometimes has to be strong enough to point out wrong. If I had a child chewing on a window sill painted with lead-based paint, my love would compel me to come between that child and the lead-based paint. Love would never ask me to stand back and tell the child that’s your choice. My whole point was “I make no rules God does.”
I hope i’m more clear in this response. Let me start by saying that I appreciate this dialogue, and in no way do I mean to be critical, condescending, or judgmental of your stance based on scriptures. You have clearly stated the need for love. and, you are right, “we don’t make the rules, God does.”
The fact that Love entitles christians to “point out wrong”, is a very fine line to cross. It brings to mind the bible-thumpers of days-gone-by. Although, standing up for what is right, is one way God wants us to share our faith.
In your most recent REPLY you said ” If I had a child chewing on a window sill painted with lead-based paint, my love would compel me to come between that child and the lead-based paint. Love would never ask me to stand back and tell the child that’s your choice.” I’m glad you would not let your child eat lead paint. and as the metaphor suggests, I’m glad a christian man would be willing to point out Sinful behavior, backed up by scripture, to their child. Although, I caution against the last sentence of this quote–”Love would never ask me to stand back and tell the child that’s your choice.”—God has repeatedly done this very thing, through example, several times in the bible. The first example was in pointing out to Adam and Eve; “do not eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.”…and then he allowed, Eve, through the gift of FREE WILL, to make the choice of eating from the tree. Love does not only ask you to stand back and allow our children or other people (as adults or young adults) to make their own choices…God requires it of us as christians. Otherwise, what would separate us from being like Saul (persecutor of the christians and jews); or what separates us from the fundamentalist Islamic nations which legislate their muslim beliefs on society: who claimed out of love, to point out others wrongs and force them to do what is right.
Of course, I would hope that a person protects a CHILD from harming themselves with lead paint…and also matches, poisons under the sink, etc… This childhood protection also goes into the realm of drugs: we caution and warn; but in the end, an adolescent has to make their own choices in life, as do adults.
The old testament is filled with rules and laws. The new testament brings us the message of Grace, and Godly Guidelines.
Peace to you brother in Christ,
feel free to email me directly at any time: InspirationAustin@gmail.com
Stephen, I’m glad you started this conversation. Scott may have more to say on the matter, but I wanted to add a few thoughts too.
I somewhat see what you’re saying here, but Scott’s example of watching a child eat lead-based paint was an example that would have resulted in harm to the child if allowed to continue. And you do point out that Christian behavior would stop the kid from doing that, but let’s take an example of sin, rather than an example of a child who hasn’t developed enough life skill yet to know what’s physically harmful and what’s not. Let’s use the example of homosexuality, since Scott brought it up first. The Bible clearly teaches against it, both in the OT and in the NT. Yes, God has given us the choice of whether to engage in homosexuality or not, but he has also instructed us against it. Why should Christians not do the same? I’m not suggesting we should seek out homosexuals and teach them from the Bible that their behavior is distinctively nonChristian — maybe we should do that, maybe not, but that’s for another thread. I’m certainly not suggesting that we should engage in protests, holding up signs saying “God hates fags”. God certainly does not hate homosexuals — or any sinner (you or me) for that matter. He has, however, given us the charge to preach the word, and to “correct, rebuke and encourage” (2 Timothy 4). So no, “love” does not just stand back and watch a friend or loved one engage in behavior that Scripture plainly says is destructive to the soul.
You’re exactly right — we’re not to put on our bird dog goggles, looking for every infraction of the law, and holler SINNER! when we find one. Actually it’d be all right to stand in front of the mirror and do that, but probably not on the street corner.
You bet He does, and simply living a positive Christian example can be very effective (1 Peter 3:1-7).
We’re not trying to “force them to do what is right”, and I don’t think Scott’s post called for that. All his post suggested was that when presented with the opportunity, we have the obligation — the Christian duty — to stand up and to speak out and teach Bible truth on the subject.
Yep. Again, correct. And we are saved by that very grace, but I don’t see anywhere the admonition that Christians are to stand back and just “live and let live” (not your words). We are to speak up and speak out against sin and destructive (not alternative lifestyles) when presented with the opportunity. In fact, many times Paul did just that — used his public pulpit to teach against sin (Romans 1 and Galatians 5, to name just two).
Thanks again for speaking up. I don’t know how much farther we can carry this discussion, but it’ll be interesting to see what others have to say.
Stephen:
First of all thank you for your reply. I feel we are still far apart on this issue even though we both believe in Free Will, Love, and Grace.
Yes free will is what separates man from the rest of creation. Man lives by making choices some good some not so good. Why is it that when we caution someone against buying an item that has a history of low quality we are patted on the back and honored for being a real friend. Yet if we caution against sin we are viewed as having stepped outside of love and friendship?
I believe it takes a greater degree of love to reach out and try to pull someone out of the fire than it does to stand back and just watch. I said earlier “if I had a child” well I do — three of them in fact. All of them grown. I no longer speak to them as I did when they were children but my love for them and my want for eternity compels me, to still from time to time bring an awareness of where certain actions can lead. This same love from time to time has also brought me speak to some I am not blood related to. Is it a fine line yes, for I never want to be the cause of someone falling away.
2 Timothy 4:2 (NAS) — 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
These words — reprove, rebuke, exhort — take us to a point beyond simple observation. There are so many examples in the New Testament of Godly people risking their relationship with others in order to try and bring the lost to Christ.
Ephesians 2:8 (NAS) — 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Man has never been able to earn salvation; the above scripture and the whole book of Romans states that clearly enough. No one can save a man except God. I cannot neither can anyone else I know of, for all that would come to God must come on His terms.
Somehow all this must come into balance as there are no contradictions in scripture. Somehow I must tell the world about becoming obedient to God while still maintaining my love for him and them.
Matthew 28:18–20 (NAS) — 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”